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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
66
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Posted - 2013.10.08 06:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nice analysis, but I'm concerned that no skills / mods / rigs makes the numbers a bit misleading.
Damage modifications are a wash, because they scale identically for all targets. However, considering only skill bonus, an all V missile pilot gets 1.5*1.5 = 2.25 to range, 50% reduction in target's effective velocity and 25% reduction in target's effective sig (assuming I correctly understand how GMP and TNP work). Under these numbers, a precision HML doesn't run out of range at ~14km (OH scram range or thereabouts) but at somewhere above 30km (OH point range). I suspect similar issues might apply for the damage application bonuses.
Can you re-run the numbers assuming these bonuses fully apply (all V in the four relevant skills)? Do the damage application comparisons change significantly?
I'm also curious how the 'phoon's explosion velocity bonus changes the balance. The missile velocity bonuses on the Raven and 'snake affect damage projection, and are thus easier to evaluate on your graphs by simply shifting the larger missiles 50% to the right (widening the extreme range "advantage" of cruises vs heavies and putting torps nearer to heavies in range).
Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
66
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 02:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jayne Fillon wrote:Do the damage applications change significantly based on skills only? No, not at all. I've looked briefly at the numbers, and this is not strictly true, primarily because DRF differs for different missiles.
Assume we are bound by the third term. The % increase in damage application for the various missiles at GMP/TNP V is as follows:
- Heavy Prec: +50% (DRF 2.7)
- Heavy: +60% (DRF 3.2)
- Cruise Prec: +66% (DRF 3.5)
- Heavy Fury: +84% (DRF 4.5)
- Cruise: +84% (DRF 4.5)
- Cruise Fury: +88% (DRF 4.7)
- Torp: +92% (DRF 5)
- Torp Javelin: +95% (DRF 5.2)
- Torp Rage: +95% (DRF 5.2)
The worse the DRF, the bigger effect of improved skills.
Comparing the biggest improvement (T2 torp) with the smallest (precision heavy), we see that all V improves relative damage application by about 30%. So this is not "no change at all". Whether it makes a practical difference is another matter (eg a Rage Torp vs a noob in a Merlin (39 sig, speed 310) increases from 1% to 2% potential damage, while the Precision Heavy improves from 26% to 39%).
Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
66
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 04:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jayne Fillon wrote:Now I'm not going to be satisfied until I redo all my graphs with skills applied. Although from what you're saying in the explanation of percentage increase affecting applied damage is that it will benefit RHML more than torpedoes? That isn't something I would have expected at all. No, T2 torps get the most percentage benefit, and precision heavies the least. Heavy precision damage improves by x1.5 from 0-0 to V-V, while T2 torps improve by x1.95.
Debir Achen wrote:The worse the DRF, the bigger effect of improved skills.
The confusion might be the percentages in the final paragraph: they are % application of nominal damage. Increasing from 1% to 2% nominal damage is a x2 increase (x1.95 before rounding), while increasing from 26% to 39% nominal is x1.5 increase. So the torps increase more as a ratio. In practice, 2% of torp nominal damage will be a lot smaller than even 26% of precision HM nominal damage. The extreme cases will continue to favour precision HML, but the balance in the middle might shift slightly.
Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
66
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 03:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Pretrty much always? aaa no. It {target painting} is stil the most rare form of ewar. Mostly because it's the weakest in terms of effect.
An unbonused target painter II adds 30% to the target's sig radius (37.5% at Signature Focusing V). An unbonused web slows a target by 60%, which provides almost double benefit as far as the turret and missile hit/damage calculations are concerned.
In addition to the effect on shooting, a target painter makes it faster to lock the target. A web stops the target from escaping and grants range control to the attacking side. In most situations, both the primary and secondary benefit of a web are superior to a target painter. The only thing going for the target painter is the much longer effective range.
(Also, there's a visibility question. The effect of a web or ECM is obvious - it "feels" like it's doing something. The effect of a target painter is often only visible with careful analysis.)
Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
66
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 04:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jayne Fillon wrote:my initial conclusion from the TMC article remains applicable even with the other variables factored in such as skills and tackle. Looking at your graphs, it strikes me that RHML are superior to torpedoes in all but the most favourable situations. Applied damage is at worst comparable (and that's before you switch to Fury) and range is superior.
Even compared to cruise missiles, torps don't seem to bring much extra to the table unless you can get the target double-webbed, or perhaps in a typhoon.
Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
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